Experts Speak
Experts Speak

Episode · 2 years ago

Episode 6: Create Powerfully Profitable Sales with Marketing Expert Ken Hardison

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to the Experts Speak Podcast hosted by Brand Strategist, Michael DeLon!

On this episode, meet Marketing Expert and legal guru, Ken Hardison of PILMMA (Powerful Innovative Marketing and Management Association). He's the author of multiple books including his latest, Powerful Online Legal Marketing which explains how to make the most of online marketing for your business. Tune in and find out how Ken founded and eventually sold two law firms (for 7-figures each). You don't want to miss this valuable information from a true expert with proven methods for sales success!   

You can find Ken online at https://www.pilmma.org/.

Don't forget to visit us at www.PositioningExperts.net to learn more.  

Welcome to the experts speak podcast with Michael Delan. Each episode features a leading expert who shares helpful insights, practical tips and memorable stories that will inspire you, educate you and help you enjoy more success, freedom and purpose in your life. For the next few minutes, enjoy listening to experts speak with Michael Delan and welcome to another episode of experts speak. I'm your host, Michael Delan, and thanks for being with us. I think you're going to really enjoyed this interview today. Today I'm talking with Ken Hardison. I. Ken's the founder of Pilma and he's also also the author of a multiple books. Actually, he's been writing books for many, many years, including his most recent book, powerful online legal marketing. And Ken is a legal marketing expert, but what he writes in this book really applies to everybody in business. So that's really why I wanted to have Ken on and and talk about online marketing. So can thanks for being with us today. Oh, thank you as pleasure. Well, you're welcome. It's always good to talk with you and I always learned things when I when I talk with you. So our guests aren't as a familiar with you as I am you and I go back a few years. But let's start this whole thing off. Can just give our listeners a brief background on who you are, your career in law and what you're doing now? I well, I started in so to law firms for seven figures. The first one in two thousand and ten or sold and then I sold the second one in two thousand and fifteen and two thousand and ten. After I sold my first one, I actually started this powerful Innovative Legal Marketing Management Association, which really is it's some member of ship side for lawyers to help them grow their businesses by twenty five percent one year guaranteed. So you know, I really got in the marketing my first law firm. I grew up from two lawyers and three staff to thirteen lawyers and forty seven...

...staff and like five years. Made a lot of mistakes, but I learned a lot of things to and kind of figure out what works and I always try to, you know, read everything I can, go to different events, pick people's brains. There's a lot smaller than I am and try to keep on watch the cutting edge, you know. But I had my lowfer. I would always try new things and someone works them. Did those that worked, I would do them, and then everybody start copying me and then I find something else that everybody start copying me in. You know, but that's okay, that's the best, the biggest form of flattery, right, yeah, it really is. So did that. Now I got this rigization. I coach lawyers and I do masterminds with lawyers and I help other businesses to like I was just helping my pool guy this morning. He started a business and then he said I need some business. I told him explain to him. Seem like three videos on having get on the three pack and and get Google my business reviews. I said, if you do that, I promise you other bet it down here that these pool guys. That's already any reviews. I said you'll be on, you'll be on that three packing. You it's five star reviews. I'll give you a first one and I said you going to do good and he just said Damn Man. He said how you do it? I said I don't know, I just I just know it. I said, you know, but to do was you have to really explain. He's it. I said, I got gave him like three videos youtube videos on. You know how you claim it, you know how you claim you facebook page and then what you do to how you get reviews and different things like that. So I mean you're right, it does. The only thing lawyers have to worry about the different than regular businesses is we have these ethics that most people don't think blogging or ethical, but we actually do have ethics of it. You do get this part if you do certain things, like you really can't do a one on one solicitation, like I can't, you know. You see these movies were to do it, but they should be this bard. You can go to hospital and or somebody down...

...or you know, you can advertise all you want to the market, that you can't really, you really can't be an Abla Schaser, so to speak, and the ones that do usually don't last long. The honest well and and that's that's true. One thing that you've done over your career is really taught attorneys, is particularly how to market ethically. But how do you really good marketing? Director Response Marketing, and you know it's been in steen talking with you over the years, because you've learned from the people that you know, Dan Kennedy, J Abraham those types of Gurus. Well, now you're kind of in that position where people are looking to you and in finding information from you, and that's one reason that you keep writing books, which is great, because you've got so much information you need to get it out. Talk to us a little bit about powerful online marketing, whether you're an attorney specifically, or for even business owners. What? What? What would you say is the power of online marketing and how that transition has taken place and why it's so important really for business owners to be doing on online marketing? Yeah, I mean, listen, eighty five percent of people, you know, their online every day, I mean and they're looking at stuff that they're looking at facebook ads and they're looking at youtube and they're looking in instagram and they're looking at twitter and, you know, they make a lot of the buy Dec issues that you know, it's just like I tell the old story, you know. I mean I'm sitting here trying to find a plumber or something down here little beach. What I do? I pull out my phone, and that's the big deal now, is you you got to have your phone. That's the most used right now. There's more people using phones to search then they are laptops or desktops. So it's all evolved. I mean it used to be over a feat you percent. Now it's probably over seventy percent of searches are dot off of phones and they make the phones like little mini computers now. I mean, you know, so to deal is, which is then we talk about you. You've got to have it where. Whoever building your website or whatever marketing you do, landing page, you better...

...look at it. You better have it set up to where it'll also show that. I was looking at lawyers this morning and it was all gumbled up because he did not have it qu right. You know what I'm saying? And totally yeah, work to work on cell phone. I'm sitting there saying, I know this guy paid a load of money for this website and I keep reading them, think because it's all jumbled up, it's all there gliders on top each other, and that's a shame. You know it is, because from a consumer standpoint, when that happens, I'm going somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, and you know, and I've always been a big, big advocate of educational base marketing and that's why I've read a lot of those books I'm never made any money by selling me these books, but I write the books because it's a great lead magnets. It's a great referral magnet. I put the book down and use it as a lead magnet. I can do it facebook ahead and do the lead magnet and it gives you credibility. It is you get know authority. But but the on line stuff is as we're S N as we get on and on. I mean my age we did come up with computers, but the twenty years old or thirty years old early sy that's what they come up that's why they grew up. They don't nothing that that. You asked what a phone book is. They don't know what it is, right, that's right. Yeah, and they are more comfortable with their phones than they are on the on the laptop. Yeah, I mean, and you know, I was like the first one to come out. I was spending six hundred thousand dollars a year in two thousand and five on phone books for advertising. Two Thousand and six I went to thirty thou and I took all that money and put it online and on TV. I tol like three hundred online up to like three hundred on TV and I got more cases. I mean, you know, but that a lot of lawyers held off. It's, like I said, you got the beat, but I was tracking. And this is another thing I love about online marking. Then you can track everything. Yeah, I mean it...

...may but somebody college you. But I used to have people call me up say I saw you on a billboard, but I've never did a billboard in my life, you know. But listen, when they came in from a search or whatever, I can use my google analytics and I can tell you exactly where they came from. I can tell you if I do it payper click ads. I can take exact how much I'm doing. facebook heads, they go on your website. We talked about retarding, where you can send send a man's and facebook very cheaply. And because you know, didn't know who you talk to. People got to see you seven to twenty one times before they make that. You got to have seven to twenty one touches before they make it buy decision. You know, the pistle, who you talk to. At least you got at least have seven and over the believe that and the hired a product price of that. You got to have more because it's some big decision and they go, you know, even if they somebody tells them about you, they're going to go a line and look you up. And so you got to have those Google plus reviews and need to have a nice website that loads up fast. People have got the titus fan of a NAP now. I mean you got about two to three seconds, you know, maybe seven seconds tops. You grab their attention and if you don't, they're going somewhere else, I mean, you know, and so I try to grab them and I try to have some lead magnet to grab their attention and grab their emails so that I can start nurturing them. If they don't make that decision to call now, I start nurturing them, you know. Yeah, and you get entire chapter in your book about email and nurturing email sequence to to new new prospects, which is what you're talking about now. So I want you to to elaborate just a little bit on that, but also on existing customers so you can keep that relationship going and and get referrals. Talk about the the benefit of that, because when I talked to business owners and attorneys, a lot of their money and focuses on that front and getting a new lead, which is important. They forget about that back...

...in. So talk to us about how email can work in that. So I wrote another book called a promise and never deliver, how to create, how to create a pre eminent law firm. And what I did I said there's three phases of marketing really in the first phase is before somebody hires you abuse your product, and that's what everybody thinks about. The second phase is after they tire you about your product, during that deal with like a lawyer's, during representation, and then there's after representation or after they buy a product, and that's more marketing. And so what I see is that everybody understands it before. Maybe fifty percent, thirty two, five percent understand during the representation or during the engagement, and only like ten percent understand afterwards. And the reason that you want to stay in from is very simple. And I tell this story, and if you got time I'll tell it, and it's not a lawyer's about a plumber. please. First move down to mortal beach in two thousand ten. After I sold my law firm, I had to have a plumber and so I went online. You know, I don't want it. I you had a phone to do it then, and I think maybe I just went on my computer and got this law and this this plumber right there and he did a great job. He charged me a fair price and, you know, I said, damn, that was good. You know. So then about I guess, eighteen months later, I have a stoppage in my sewer system, I mean whatever, and we had, I have said, the tank where I was at and had some kind of stopped up. So, anyway, town said it won't buy it, won't. They won't know a problem as my problem, saying to get a plumber. I could not remember who this guy was. I could not remember. I remember what the truck look like, I remember what he looked like, but I could not remember the plumber's name. And so I go online again and I found another one and this guy comes out and he does a good job. He charged me a fair price, you know, but he does something different. He puts a little sticker on my hot water heater and that's what it was. That was the water eat. The first one was the blind...

...in, the second one was the hot water heat. And then he got some information and he started sending me a little newsletter in the email. It was like, okay, you know, silly stuff, I mean nothing really like he might tell me, you know, this is the time of year you need to check your fielders or do this or whatever. Little again and something about him, this family, whatever. And I would get it every month, you know. And so the next time I needed a plumber, who do you think? I went to try, just all top of my awareness. And everybody thinks, especially lawyers, I think, and professional they think if you have to use the need them and you got remember me forever. And they don't. They N it on. They don't. And it's also keeps top amount awareness so that if they see somebody that needs your service for product, they's going to be on top of her head to say what you might. You need to go call Joe because you know he did a good job for me, whereas I kept remember the first promis name right that, but I remember the second plumber's name because I so. So that's that's for current and past this business transactions. And so that's where most people, in fact, I mean I really advocate doing an easing or either doing like we got some lawyers down a listen out. A couple of emails a month that they will know what's going on around their town or village or whatever, and you also something that there are some something that they're doing, some kind of drive, food drive, whatever it is. Let him know that. Or if they're going to be at some festival, they let them know, hey, we're going to have a loose day. You just little stuff just to keep this keeps paying them. And then the second part of this is on the front end. I see so many people do this. Person said, well, you know, I ain't quite made up my mind. You know whatever I call offense sitters, you know. So I created, and...

I think every business or do this, create a drift campaign and you can what it is. Use A auto responder. So it's basically setting up a series of emails. It's going to go out ever so many days and you can experiment how to do it. Like, for by lawyers. I created like twenty one different emails and they're not higher is highers or body this body. It's all educational. What I'm saying is like with lawyers. I say that you know, if it was whatever, it might be whatever, if you sell in a grill, you know, did you know that the trot top three reasons that are grilled doesn't last past two years, you know, or you know, something like the stuff like that. You know that's a Pea yeah, or sing yeah, and then and then I say, you know, if you got any questions, to give us a call, you know, if we can help you anyway. But I don't say hey, hires, would it be not that, like I usually I do. The things like these are fifty two ways in search. Company you can true, you over, you know, and this lay them out. Or this is thirty two ways in search can be. They looks at things, they look at the day way, the value you claim. Just keep educating them, educating like you got the movement but a plumber. Dam Me. You know, this is the time to get your fields out. You know it's just but I guess the deally is when you do that, it's nobody your competition of not going to do it. Ninety nine percent. I'm so you're way a head. And if they keep the laying, who's going to be in the top of your mind? And who? And then you get back in this rest of prosy. Do if you get a great help for information. There's a guy that write this book Taldini at Arizona State. I think cold influence and he says, you know, when you do good stuff for other people, I will say all the half of them feel in obligated to return the favor and looks. I think it creates trust. They get to know you more and I'm always said people higher and by stuff from people that know...

...like and trust you said. I mean this think is I think so many people are missing the boat by not doing the drift king thing campaigns on the front end and then not doing emails to the past class or customers. You know, and and and answer two deals over with. I mean you know, right. And the thing about a drip campaign setting up with a system and email system like you just talked about. You write those campaigns one time really and they're there. It's an edbar green system, right. You don't have to do it all the time. Yeah, and you can use if the big deals, you want to have some kind of lead man. It will capture that emails. Something really a very tip value report. I use books, I use reports. I've even tried to webinars. Now I've done some webinars where you can get on this webin argument. You even you point it a deal, you know, like seven sticking points to building a successful wall form. You know, if it was a big accident, you know seven, seven biggest mistakes. That acts. That that was in north caronomy and how to Botom rite. I miss about you know, you workers carp claim or you know, or you could be to notice the three myths about buying a grill. And I keep going boy, the grill, because I'm thinking about buying a grip, said the top of my great. That's the other thing, though, I want to talk about right there before we get to the next topic. is a Lee generation magnet like that. So many times a business owners are going to say I'm not going to create a PDF, I don't have time to do that. And it doesn't have to be that. You could do the the seven tips to a grilling out in summertime as a lead generation magnet. They opten. It could be you on a video like this just walking through seven things, or a simple powerpoint presentation. Right. Yeah, and if you really, I mean if you really mean you could get on five or find somebody interview you, they write it for you. That's true, and probably for fifty books. That's true. Yeah,...

...it's there's so many easy, simple, fast ways to get things done. I think most business owners just stopped because it's like, I don't know what to do. And the one thing you said earlier, which is so instructive for everyone, is you made a lot of mistakes and you learned a lot. Right, we that's how we learn. It's like I always tell people, it's like innison. You know, I learned what every time I make a mistake. I learned what don't work, so I don't have to repeat it. Right, as like the lap little tip. Thousand Times he knew nine thousand, that hundred nine and amazing, what work the thousand and he knew what work. That's right, and aren't we glad he never gave up? Right? That's right. Talk about just a minute here for the the you know, your entire book powerful online legal marketing. Online legal marketing, online marketing has been around for a quite some time, but it's still rather new to lots of people. But what do you think is the future of digital marketing and and video and everything? Yeah, I think I think video is already hit it that way. I think it's been shown that well. It's the youtube is the second largest search it in the world. It's not like Google up. It's been shown that people retain like many percent more when they see something versus just read it. And you know they're coming out with different you youtube ad programs and just you know anything, you won't the Shimmer Generation. They just go to YouTube. They want to figure out something and they ever more about to educate themselves, like they get ready to buy a card. Everyone to go to Youtube and see what people say about it, you know, or they going to you know, if they want to buy a gym membership, they're going to go with it. But you know well, you know well, it's second's second nature to them. Youtube is so far as second nature to them. And so you've got business owners, the plumber. Well, how in the world's he going to use video? Well, there are lots of ways. He could show you how to replace...

...a faucet or find a drip or something. Right, yeah, and really what he's doing is show you, Hey, this is some them harmed it. Not even people got me and say Hell, well, I'm glad to know how to do it. Now I'm going to hire there's no way I'm going to do it. Well, you know this guy. You know you sit there and tell him the whole deal and then show men hardy, they gonna say what they am I ken't this. He knows what he's doing. Are you? And that's a that's a great point, because I talked to a lot of business owners around either writing a book or putting information down, and there like well, I don't want to give too much information away, and it's like give it all away because they're not going to do it. Yeah, that's abody. You know, no, low partner. What time? He said, can you of the way? All, way, too much information? I said any time for some people like us. I said there's enough cases out there for everybody. I said, you know, and every time I speak I have these big events where I've always going to fall over United States, Canada, Australia and you know, I say, listen, here's the deal. I'm sure I have you go over, be jacked up the pub with like twenty things you go to do when you go back to the office. I said it only five, the Tien percent of you going to do it us. and Are you going to be that jeers and I said you go have the best intentions, I said, but life gets in the way. I said. You know, and that goes back to one of my big deals, I think the secret to success is is focus and discipline. And it's hard, you know, it's hard to stay focused in discipline that gets stuff done. is currently hard. And as business owners, most of us, you know, entrepreneurial ties. We are idea factories, right. We're always coming up with a new idea, and to be focused and discipline to say that's a great idea needs to wait a week. If that's the secret, yeah, but I think that's where it's going. I mean I think. I think you're going to see that the Google maps, the local, they're going to start to seeing google. They're going to...

...change very read dis or changing. You go ahead, start paying for that. I mean they got now where you can buy a certain cities, but they're going to be like to do or certified plumbers and they're going to be going to pay for requisition, the plums and and Google is going to guarantee it. So that's going to even make people want to hire more. They're going to be on the top of the maps section the local and plus they're going to be sort of Google get back, guaranteed back by Google, and so you have to pay a healthy fee for that. I mean they'll be competition for that. So you going to see that's going to be the next PPC paper. Click. It's going to be on that middle because Google all they've been doing this now, which to go to wait, to monetize everything, to do it. Oh, they absolutely do, you know. And so they're going to matchize that. And that goes back to the importance of what you've talked about two or three times here. is a lead generation magnet to get somebody's email, because once they're on your email list, your cost to market to them goes drastically down. It might take you some money to get them, but now they're in your pool. Right, if you got them, heard it, do you know, and you've got in them. But here's the key, and this is for a reluttant, it's hard, you know. It's hard to get people to open emails now because they get Bumbardi. So you got the hit that the subject line is so important. I mean we test subject lines all the time. We might run out the same email but two different subject lines and split Testam just to see which one gets a better open. Right, because of because I can make a big difference from I mean in a it does. The other thing that makes a big difference in in email marketing is the sender. So it's coming from you and what's my perception of you? is every email I get from you a selling email where you're trying to get to get me to buy, or are you providing great information and fun information about my community or whatever it makes me want to open it? That's a difference to how to create that trust.

I mean, like I've got when this covid hit, I stopped selling everything. You know about the snare that I said. Okay, we got a pivot, I said we so we started this whole build the coronavirus survivable Kit for lawyers and I'm I did weekly webinars with different experts coming in. We had all these articles about how to go to remote, how to manage people remote, because that's what the law firms were doing. I got the SBA people to come in and talk to about loans. You know, I believeous I got. I'm trying to get somebody to get me. Foulchy, was it? They pail to your party. The Guy, the head Gud is, said there with trump all the time. Yeah, to talk to us about the CDC regulations for going back to work. And so I've got a I've got a congressman up there just trying to get me, because if I get this interview here for like five two minutes and zoom and recorded, that I can play it the next day, we'll see. That's you got to do big right. But so I've come up with like everybody is share us, but it's on facebook, social media and email it and everybody I was sharing it and we come up one thus five hundred and two followers and said, well, I'm doing right now. I'm not trying to sell him anything right now. I'm just fed them are with the free information. I'm building that trust, trying to build up that rest and prosody and you know, and we will sell them something right nails might not be the time. I will really give, give, give, give, yeah. Well, and that's a great point for everybody, because they're not going to buy from you until they know you. They like you, but then they trust you and that trust comes from that education based marketing and whether that's through a book like this or through facebook events or just sharing information and realizing getting them to the point where they realized I like this guy. He's always got great information. I wonder what else he has. And that's when that relationship comes in, because we too many businessors owners are in that transaction mindset, trying to get...

...a sale versus that relational aspect, because the value of one client long term is huge, especially for an attorney. I mean, listen, that's like I tell people. I say I was a little big on Plat service. I said, you know, you figure out what your average fee is a for class at the deal is that class said you two or three more people in the next ten of fifteen years. That class where four times as much. Right, five times as much. So what? What about built that? Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to going to referral from them. Then it is the good pay a bunch your fees up for TV or telephone or Google ads or whatever you whatever you radio ads. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and it's so much easier to close. I mean, I've never I've never had to sell anybody when I get a referral you, and I may, I'll tell you one thing. I had to. I really push the book. I used it and I'm preset mylorry. I get two or three my books. I had different consumer books, little fifty page books, but they were really like a quite paper. But I call books and they had it, had a more code and everything, and I would give it to us safe. When you see somebody that needs our services, given this books and this is the lawyer I use and and so people they will lose a business card that you're not going to lose a book, Bro that's right. Got A lot higher perceive day. It gives you authority and that really my referrals, because twenty percent of people never give you a furrow. Here. What you do for with twenty percent? Always give them this because they loved you and they're sixty percent that would if you, if you let them know, if you give an easy way to do it in a book is a very easy way to do it, Sich wreaker, you know, and it's perceived at if you do the book right, I can then one of those consumer books. I say there's a main questions. You should ask glory before her for divorce or you get you divorced before you, before you, you know, talk to this Church Cup, they know whatever.

Before you go to chord for you speed Dick in it and it always make it a word of questions. Come back and where kid hors will be the obvious juice right, and that's the brains of it in house. How simple is that really? Yeah, I mean it makes it. It makes it unless the book do to sell it and it it makes you the authority. So you've got a guys saying, Hey, it's a great lawyer and he must be pretty deep beause you read a book and you know so he must know what he's doing. Same, right, you know, so you don't? You know? And then once they read the book, hopefully they'll like you and get to know you a little bit. So yeah, I mean I think it's the thing. A book. You know, I'm in bigger books. I was doing books and the late S, I mean I was, I was, I was big books, always are. Yeah, you vot you've always been big on booth. You've always written books in every category you've gone into and you keep writing books. So how can you if somebody wants this book? I know it's on Amazon, it's on Kendall. Is that your website? How can somebody get in touch with you if they're if they have some questions about online marketing. He's this way, is kin Kan at, Pilmo til M M a orgy. Yeah, and I got to do Kennel Flann and that's it. Oh, there you go, go buy it. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's that's that's cheaper than me melan him. A hardcome, it really is. You know. Yeah, you know. I mean it's an any weak that flows with your philosophy of giving that information away, right, you're not trying to make money by selling the book. That's the dumbest thing a business owner author could ever do. Give your give your book away as best you can. Ninety nine cents on Kendall powerful online legal marketing by Ken Hardison. Whether you're an attorney or not, you need to buy this book and get it and read it and follow the advice because there's so much in there. We just touched on two or three items. Can they email follow up system and referrals and things? There's...

...so much in there. And I really liked what you said about video, because I'm with you. I think video is a key as we go to the future and with all this covid and assuming stuff everybody's getting a lot willfutable with video to yeah, it is, or it really is. I mean all of my meetings now are this way versus telephone, and I think we're going to keep it up. Yeah, it is. Is Good work. Well, can't thanks for thanks for taking some time and being with us. Thanks for writing another great book to help business owners grow their business. I know that's your heartbeating. That's really what you're or what you're all passion about. So thanks for being with us today. Thank you for publishing help me, and that gets to me or welcome anytime. We love working with you. Okay, brow, we'll talk to you later. Thank you. Thanks for listening to experts speed with Michael Dulan. If what you've heard today was helpful to you, reach out to our expert guest and see how they can serve you to bring you more success, freedom and purpose in your life.

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